http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6117910.stm

The old fashioned way.

Such things are required. He did do a lot of bad things, though it honestly isn't worse than what is currently happening in the current state of things in my opinion.

Though I honestly expect another to replace him soon enough. Pessimistic perhaps, but I have never seen the middle-east as a "Region thirsting for democracy" as the current administration so bluntly put it. Too many tribal and cultural divides as well as issues over who gets the oil revenue.

I wonder if they'll be old school enough to do it in a public forum.

In other shocking and unexpected news, the sky is blue, behemoths still have true seeing, and my NWN2 still doesnt run worth a crap on the lowest settings.

Also, the pope is still catholic.

OMGbearisdriving

Also, the pope is still catholic.

Shenanigans!

Get your brooms folks-

The pope is actually a devout follower of the "Curch of the flying spaghetti monster."

In all seriousness though, numerous people I spoke with actually thought this was shocking, as they expected with many "Famous trials" (Robert blake, Kobe, RKelly, OJ) compounded by corruption and susch, that he would actually walk. I guess some Americans are just jaded in terms of justice.

Random_White_Guy

OMGbearisdriving

Also, the pope is still catholic.

Shenanigans!

Get your brooms folks-

The pope is actually a devout follower of the "Curch of the flying spaghetti monster."

In all seriousness though, numerous people I spoke with actually thought this was shocking, as they expected with many "Famous trials" (Robert blake, Kobe, RKelly, OJ) compounded by corruption and susch, that he would actually walk. I guess some Americans are just jaded in terms of justice.

You forget. Justice doesn't exist in our side of the world. :)

Nothing to do with "justice" its an anomaly.

World dictators who moonlight as mass killers don't often get punished at all (Hitler, Stalin, Lenin, Mao).

Those that do get punished generally get "house arrest" (Pol Pot, Pinochet *although he is still under trial*).

I can't think of another world leader who has been tried, found guilty, and will face the death penalty. Generally, I think its because wiser heads realize you don't want to give his political supporters a martyr. Its easier to work with him, or around him with his political base to secure legitimacy for your own government.

Ultimately, this is only going to crystalize the divisions in Iraq and push non-Baath'ists and Sunnis who didn't support the insurgency to viewing it as a necessity. It has nothing to do with justice, its pure sectional blindness that fueled this verdict.

People who want to whine will find a reason. One way or another.

I agree with Oro, his theories support my own.

Oroborous Those that do get punished generally get "house arrest" (Pol Pot, Pinochet *although he is still under trial*)

Oroborous Generally, I think its because wiser heads realize you don't want to give his political supporters a martyr. [...] Ultimately, this is only going to crystalize the divisions in Iraq and push non-Baath'ists and Sunnis who didn't support the insurgency to viewing it as a necessity. It has nothing to do with justice, its pure sectional blindness that fueled this verdict.

I agree 100%.

Somehow this reminds me of stoning...

Though it feels wrong to some extent to kill someone i guess he DID do a lot of bad stuff... Arnt we just lowering ourselves to his level? Whats wrong with life in prisonment with no chance of being released?

It's been said in some philosophy book i read "man will turn on man until there is only one remaining." It's just wrong to kill someone no matter how many people he's killed himself, shouldnt the entire army that he controled get death aswell then?

Maybe it's just the respectable, forgiving catholic in me, but i assumed that side of me died a long time ago... Hrm...

Perhaps this is simple the conservative Texan in me. However, he did any number of things worthy of the death penalty. They are going to hang him. Good. -dholt5

I still dont agree with the death sentence in any way...

Please tell me there's nothng wrong with that... I'm feeling like a real freak right now...

Also, why are people who were with him being killed...

:?

While I am not concerned particularly with his execution itself, the celebratory reactions from certain groups was somewhat disturbing.

However, this does not extend to groups like the Kurds, who suffered the most at his hand.

I'm not sure anyone can have the right to deem anyone unworthy of life. What single person or group of people should have that power? It implies some people are of a different intrinsic moral worth than others, which is patently wrong.

I don't have any concerns of martyrdom, though I acknowledge it is a possibility and could very well happen, but that's not why I find this repugnant. I'm just opposed to such "penalties" as a principle, before its practical application and consequences can even be considered.

And as 9lives said, I do find it unsettling when people take pleasure in the death of another Human being.

You be sure to tell the people -he- sentenced to death by a number of dinstinctly colorful means that, when you get to wherever we go when we buy our heavenly farms.

I can't disagree with the sentence. If anything, I find it ironic.

It's the motives behind it (I share Oroborous' opinion here) that make me want to puke. This was not a justice-driven trial, even though the veredict was the same (I believe Saddam would have been convicted and sentenced to death in any country that uses the death penalty, regardless of the 'morality' of that sentence).

The same power-brokers who're still behind the American government supported this man and greatly enabled his massacre of the opposition and ethnic minorities by supplying him with all sorts of armament.

The same power-brokers who're behind the American and British governments befriended this man back in the late 70's-early 80's when he promised accessible, cheap oil. The same power-brokers agreed to 'let it slide' because Saddam was part of their scheme for the energetic security of their countries.

The same class of scum is responsible for dividing that region into highly volatile states that have nothing to do with ethnicity, or the actual concept of nation through self-determination. Iraq is the West's 'fault', and has been the West's 'fault' for quite some time. Thankfully our media needs to cover wardrobe malfunctions in the Super Bowl extensively, so we don't get to see the ugly side of things. I like my oil, I like my plastics and I sure as hell like my electricity. To hell with those Iraqis, right? Who cares!

This man deserves to die. But that they're using his death to further political agendas is pretty disgusting, yeah.

Oh, well. It's the world we live in. I gotta go now! The Simple Life, Season 4 is on!

- Kiaring

Well, It's my belief that politics and morality have nothing in common. Behind every "honest" leader is a million backstabbings, intrigue, and deceit.

Comes with the territory, I suppose.

I try to avoid this sort of discussion since I don't think myself half as "Informed" as those who seem to be incredibly outspoken on the subject.

That said, the mere fact that things that happened three -decades- ago being -our- fault in the present is bogus. Saddam, Osama and a lot of other ass holes were backed by the US back in the day. Just like in the past other super powers have backed evil and demented shit heads as they were more than likely the lesser of two evils, or to secure their own country's well being.

People seem to have this disillusion that the United States is this beacon of morality and cannot make any sort of mistakes, in the past, future or present. And if we should, we should pay heavily for it. These same people also seem to think that the United States is immeditately in the wrong when we try to "force" this sense of "Morality" upon countries where stoning adulterers, gender inequality, and the intolerence/slaughter of other religions is perfectly tolerated (Of course, this is an extreme example).

Like I said, people who want to whine or nit pick at every little thing will do so until they get vocal enough to make it seem like some sort of huge fiasco.

I personally believe that the US is an outstanding beacon of Morality in the World, that we're one of the best countries, as well as the most generous and powerful, with responsibility to match it. I further believe that America has some huge social flaws that reflect our people in a poor light. (Reality TV being an awesome example!) I also believe that regardless of any fact that the US might've backed dictators 30 years ago who later became obvious mass-murderers should have little effect on the World's decision to execute said killers. I also further think that the leaders we elect and those who act as our top decision makers/Intelligence gatherers know a fair deal more than "Joe DnD Player" and should probably be trusted that they're doing what's best because of said knowledge that the common people don't have access to for one reason or another. Then again, it's not like I'm involved with Intelligence in the US Military and have no idea what I'm talking about when it comes to -that- ^_^

I think Saddam should die. I think his sons should've been killed as they were. I also think the US has pretty good reasons for being involved where we are in the World, and I further think people who're trying to whine about -this- said decision should probably consider how many people were killed because of Saddam.

I never blamed it on the American people. I never blamed it on America. I have nothing but the utmost respect for the United States - in fact, I would go as far as calling it my second home. If I could choose a place for the children I one day want to have to grow up in, it will definitely look a hell of a lot more like the USA than Brazil. I lived in America, and a few very non-representative examples nonwithstanding, you are a friendly, welcoming people with a rich history, who are proud of the country you've built. It has huge flaws, but I've known and I know people who will live their lives trying to change these things.

I didn't blame America. I didn't blame the USA. I blamed the same power-brokers, the same people in the corridors of power that move and shake in Washington - who, by the way, are the same people who came up with the idea of interfering in conflicts all over the world because it was 'America's business'. You can look at the American backing of then-freedom-fighter Osama bin Laden as an idealistic act in support of another people's freedom, or you can see it with slightly more critical eyes, and realize that while this is the truth that was sold to the people, there are nuances to the story that go beyond that. Afghanistan was a key position in Central Asia, and it represented the first true expansionist invasion of the Soviet Union (who, by the way, probably tried to sell to their kids that they were just trying to 'secure their own country's well being', like you said) since, well, pretty much forever, if you don't count the fact that WWII can be called a war of defense. What the American people saw (and rightly so) was a people needing the help of a 'bigger brother' to counter the big bad Red Star in the horizon. What these power brokers saw, was the chance to score major defense contracts, establish a sympathetic government in Afghanistan and use its strategic position to further ensure its oil/regional interests wouldn't be intruded upon by the soviets.

The very same thing can be applied to Iraq. Saddam was supported by the US in the early eighties by the same people who're still in administration to this day (Donald Rumsfeld being the most obvious, but not the only, example). Point here is that these people knew Saddam was as much of a bastard (and deserved the death penalty) back then as he is now. And they still sold him chemical weapon precursors (substances you can use to make the actual chemical weapons) and other sorts of 'regulated' war supplies. Why? Because Saddam was fighting a war with Iran, and Iran was the big bad evil hand that enshrouded America's oil future by throwing a big question mark over the middle east. Again, you can claim that America did well in supporting Saddam (because the Iranian government, too, is a totalitarian regime that I am in no way condoning or supporting here - the social reins they place on women are something I find abhorrent, for example) but that doesn't change the fact that he was the same asshole then, as he is now. It doesn't change that the people who made the decisions knew he was a murderous son of a bitch. And it doesn't change the fact that it's the same jolly posse who's in power today.

The only thing the West can do, is use its much-propagandized, seldom-used 'power of the people' and press its leaders into taking actions that don't divide the world into countries, but rather unite it. The future of the entire planet is at stake here. Believe me, the qualities I praised in the American people, and in America, can be found in any country in the world. Iraq and Iran, for example. Under no circumstance we should let these governments exist, but closing your eyes to the real reason behind this war - and this sentence - is just ignoring the facts.

- K.

Amazing how quickly a discussion can become a complete snore.

We all know Saddam has been sentenced. Let's leave the promulgations of United States involvement/innocence for another time.