All right, this is my brand new, still very fresh idea.

No DM has vetted this, but I’m just putting it out there to see what people think.

I am worried that the chaotic state of lower isn’t really being felt since the Tigers left. There are a lot of NPC gangs, but not enough trouble that I have seen. To solve this answer I want to make lower a more dangerous (and fun) place.

To do this I want to start a faction for alts. These alts would belong to a gang that is trying to rule lower.

The faction would be composed of, and this is important, LOW LVL CHARACTERS. No character would be above lvl 4.

The characters are teenagers, children, vagabonds, thieves and so on. The objective of the faction is to rule lower, or at least cause as much mayhem as possible.

There is lots of opportunity for fun RP. There might be some faction DM quests, but generally the faction wouldn’t quest, their main job is to try and make lower scarier.

They should try and browbeat, bully and bash characters that come into lower, although generally not killing them (at least without a solid reason, like getting paid to do it, or having a member die).

There would be a high character turn over, but it would be acceptable (and recommended) for those interested to make new characters when they die. Obviously greifing newbies is still out, so it would be attempts to swarm rich looking adventurers that would be most fun.

As I say, it’s a new idea. But if the DMs don’t lock this thread, and people seem interested, ill try and set up a prelude and a forum page and so on.

sorry but i cant just see this idea working mainly because to attack people in lower would require Dm's on and i really dont like the idea of a faction thats only goal seems to be that of attacking other PC's.Nice idea though

The chaos actually may be dieing down a bit due to some ingame actions. I think this suggestion has its merits for adding flavor, but I don't think it would really work in the end, and the time for this type of character may be drawing to a close.

I don't think EFU will ever become a server where certain types of characters are not possible.

So there's still a chance for my half dragon/half vampire monk/druid/shifter!?!11one?

This may cause factional issues, but I've always liked the idea of thugs robbing you. An NPC could initiate dialogue and give the player the option of handing over all of their gold or being struck up by their own entrails followed by the option of a number of witty responses on the PC's part. Thug could then go hostile and try to kill the PC. This may cause faction problems with non-hostile NPCs getting killed and running all over the place trying to kill these people, so it's a bit questionable. Perhaps in areas that don't have any NPCs nearby? Or perhaps script them so they won't attack members of specific factions?

As long as it's legit in respect to server rules on PvP/greifing, more mayhem, thuggery and chaos the better!

I like this idea of a chaotic area where you could die from the get go.. maybe you would need to pick an area which is not normally traversed as much as lower like... the south ally of lower where the goblins now reside.

I'm not sure if it got changed, but is the section near the gambling house pretty much segragated from the rest of that map?

That seems like the ideal place to try your high crime, thug dominated area. Or even the sewers.

I like the idea, but you need a reason for PCs to want to go into that area to brave the thugs.

Say, an NPC "fence" that buys loot? Roll a bluff score to see if he and the "thugs in the shadows" deal with you, or just come out and rob you. Maybe some cheap herbs that don't work as well, or only part of the time?

Obviously this would be where you could find the choicest rumors, roughest customers etc. The Crone tries for that nasty feel, but it's right on the beaten track. REALLY seedy dives are usually tucked away and near some place that attracts scum.

Like Cathouses, Gambling Halls, and the like.

I'm sure you DMs could have some fun with this. Couple shops near the gambling hall serving bad, cheap beer/ale and offering various sundry....items or services?

Of course along the lines of the DMs standards on this server...

The 'seedy' place could also be the place you find the more chaotic quests or even downright evil ones.

In a seedy enough place even a d.m possessin an npc wouldnt do anything to help you. In fact they may join in.. or attack the attacker who's hurt after his atack of the victim !!!

Lookit Me! I'm the King of New York!

While your return coincided with the area becoming less chaotic ICly, I still feel that the

more mayhem, thuggery and chaos the better!

I like this idea, a lot!

It might make Lower a little more dangerous, especially in the quiet times (ie the Oz dead zone) if one or two PC thugs are about.

I'd make one... :twisted:

I'd be more than interested in this idea.

I agree that the full chaos and mayhem of Lower was never really felt, not because of PC thugs though, there were plenty of people who took advantage of the chaos. Especially in the beginning.

I don't think people ever appreciated the gravity of the situation. With Lower in total chaos, the entire city was in danger - and the city is supposed to be sitting on a razor's edge anyway. In the first week or so I was fully prepared for the Drow to just begin invading. Or maybe the Illithid. Or maybe the Beholders. The only type of invasion force that we ever saw was Goblins that more or less could have been dispatched by a single Knight at the Gates.

After the first week or so past and the city still was safe, Lower became "Oh yeah, that annoying place to get to that is in total chaos." After the lift was built, it was almost like nothing had happened.

I don't think the full potential was ever really realized, and was slightly disappointed that more people weren't pushing (very hard) for an immediate resolution to the problem.

From my prospective Dungal and Melrick were one of the few who took things very seriously. Of course, they were looking for what they could get out of it, but they both were also worried about what would happen if outside forces tried to take Lower Sanctuary. Aside from what they would have gained, it was the main reason behind them taking the Gates. It was very clear that if the Drow invaded and Lower Sanctuary fell Upper Sanctuary would have been screwed.

Dungal tried very hard to get people interested in several major proposals to fix the situation, but most people just didn't seem all that interested.

Personally, if I was a DM - I would have had the Drow begin to invade through the Lower Ward after the first week or so. Harsh? Maybe. Although, there should be a price for being apathetic, and I think the city needs to be constantly reminded just how bad off they are - to many people seem to act like this is Baulder's Gate. They don't seem to be realizing just how bad off Sanctuary really is... it was one of the major motivating factors behind Melrick, at least in the beginning, an honest wish to see the city survive - for selfish reasons, true, but he knew his survival was tied directly to the city.

Not many people seem to be getting that message.

I think the lack of an actual PC gang causing chaos and thuggery is the reason most people never really worried about the chaos and thuggery after the second or third day and why most PCs really didn't take the revolt seriously at all for weeks and weeks until--one PC from Lower suddenly stood up and tried to instill order, then I killed him. Weeks went by before a PC stood up and tried again.

So more chaos, more disorder is great.

I must admit, when I came back and walked through the new 'post tiger' lower, I was expecting danger. Actually its as a safer than the Arabel Market in CoA.

If theres no law down there, can the Dms give a confirmation that the NPC's there are not maintaining law and order and murders happen in what passes for 'broad daylight' down there.

It would be nice if an NPC gang walks up to you and demands payment, attacking if its not forthcoming, unless they get to 'search' you to be sure you are broke. Sort of like beggars in CoA but with attitude.

Jadelink

Things have significantly stabilized since the original post. For example the Footmen have been established and currently police the streets, as one of the examples.

I got onto the server after Tigereys and after the lift was set up.

Since then, I have lost several thousand gold - which means stolen, beaten up by cultists, and banned from going there under penalty of death - or least some form of discomfort, viewing canibalism, etc., by a single character.

It could be that this particular character has been unfortunate. (My other characters have not had such trauma.)

I do believe that it would certainly force Upper to war with the Lower if more thuggery was constant. Oh, is that what we are hoping for. ;o)

--------------------- May your day be shorter than your temper.

If this is likely to go ahead, I'd love to have a tough little twelve year old brat, a fifteen year old hooker, the 'oh-so-sweet-honest' young pickpocket, the 16 year old boy trying to vie for leadership of the gang... The possibilities are endless. I particularly like the idea of it being a bunch of secondary characters, so you don't invest so much in them, they're there to make things interesting for everyone, and for a bit of RP spice...

Count me in, please. Hell, evading the footmen would be half the fun.

I'm in..as soon as my main character dies that is ...