Some of the rules for monster AI is confusing me. Can someone please tell me how to treat monster AI or at least point me in the direction of a post where it has already been discussed?

I'd help, but I have no idea what you're asking about monster AI.

lol , good point

just how to treat it when fighting against monsters in quest.

eg. dms didnt like it when we abused the monsters AI by

1. Using a door way as a hold point, so a party could fight only one or two monsters at once, even though there could be fifteen trying to reach a party.

2. Sending a scout out too shoot one so he/she will be chased back to the party and then everyone can attack it and bring it down

I've always believed that whatever you do in dungeon with monsters holds a certain realism about it because NWN made it that way. And always played on RP servers that have allowed it.

But I would like to know where to draw the line on EfU

I think she wants to know what counts as AI abuse and what doesn't... I think.

err yeah...too put it simply....

Using a doorway as a chokepoint is fine.

Shooting one monster the luring back to your group isn't. Mostly because other monsters in the line of sight/hearing range of the monster that got shot would have seen it and obviously joined in.

I would, on the contrary point out that "slamming" a door to prevent creatures passing through is not since it disconnects AI and they just stand there, meaning they don't open the door. If they Do open the door, PCs can close it again, preventing them from attacking, etc etc.

Meaning: Doorway chokepoint is different to Closing Door On NPCs

Definetely.

Fish I would, on the contrary point out that "slamming" a door to prevent creatures passing through is not since it disconnects AI and they just stand there, meaning they don't open the door. If they Do open the door, PCs can close it again, preventing them from attacking, etc etc.

Meaning: Doorway chokepoint is different to Closing Door On NPCs

On the other hand, I've never felt it was unrealistic to slam a door on a monster at least once to give yourself an extra second to run.

what if its a monster that cant open the gate/door again? like a beetle or a rat

If you're running away from a beetle or a rat I would slam the door on it to stop it. You can do it in real life, so the way I see it you can do it in NWN without incident. Though if you slam a door on say, a Bugbear, and he just sits there well... I'm not sure what you can do. Should you open the door for him or just play with it?

NPCs still open doors.

Rats and Beetles do too.

(or they always have in my experience)

Luring with arrows is bad... but what about sneaking up, smacking one of them (melee) and running back to your mates?

That could be seen as exploiting the AI, since you're drawing them into an area of your choice (eg: doorway or narrow bridge) But considering that it's fairly risky (sneaks tent do be pretty pansy) and they don't have THAT much choice (ie: if they don't chase you, you rinse and repeat till they're all dead) - is this legal, illegal or a grey issue?

DM call on this?

Some DMs feel more strongly about this than other DMs, but as a general rule don't "lure" monsters regardless of technique.

what about for the purpose of using trap kits? they seem kind of useless if you have to set them up and hope something randomly blunders into it

You can lure, so long as you lure the whole group of monsters together. Traps are most certainly not useless.

So a "lure" that's illegal is when you get one or only part of a mob to follow you. If you get them ALL to follow you (eg: fireball them, or sneak up and smack one and run back to your waiting party members) to fight you at a place of your choosing, it's legal?

Yes. It's all pretty common sense, really.

I always thought it was ok to lure a monster with arrows for the simple reason that if you shoot an orge in the mob and only that one comes after you is because the other members of the mob are either looking the other way for are too far from the one you shoot anyway, and these monsters are pretty dumb on top of that.

On the occasion when the all do chase you it's because they all have seen you or heard you attack their friend.

Now I am not entirly sure how the NWN engine works, I just wanted to clear up why I thought it was okay.

But on top of that, how about when you're alone without a party (and this happens rarely! :p )? Like when you're in the bug caves. Some classes (like rogues ect) can't take on a group of bugs without getting killed and so go about luring the odd beetle away from the group with arrows instead - thus fighting only only one or two at a time. Is that okay?

I read the first page of responses so take this for what its worth.

I think that slamming the door on them should be allowed as most creatures can open it again and attack. I wish there was a way in the game to use a strength check to see if you could 'hold the door closed' but I know that's not built into the game engine.

But on top of that, how about when you're alone without a party (and this happens rarely! :p )? Like when you're in the bug caves. Some classes (like rogues ect) can't take on a group of bugs without getting killed and so go about luring the odd beetle away from the group with arrows instead - thus fighting only only one or two at a time. Is that okay?

It's a bad habit to get into, but honestly I doubt anyone will care if your level 2 fights beetles this way, since beetles aren't intelligent and you're a newbie. If you get found luring, say, troglodytes away one by one with arrows somewhere else, it would be lame.

Just to get some clarity then.. with the aim of ensuring that players don't inadvertently annoy a DM, or contravene any rules.

Are these rules on luring, or any other AI abuses irrespective of the creature that is affected?

For example: It would be quite rightly lame to lure one at a time Drow, Trogs, anything with obvious intelligence/communciation etc. What about potentially other powerful but non-intelligent creatures e.g. Elementals, zombies??

I would prefer a 'blanket' ruling that it is not allowed on any creatures, but thought a little clarity would help, so people know they are doing something 'wrong'. As the issue of the creatures abilities did come up...

Elementals are intelligent, as are many of the other monsters that spawn throughout the underdark. Goblins for example, whose intelligence is questioned but still enough to yell for help. I would assume every creature to be intelligent except: Oozes, Insects, Small Animals, and non-spellcasting skeletons or zombies. However even if you are luring a single rat out of a group, it makes little sense in most cases. You attract one rat, the rest of the starving buggers should notice as well. I dont think any further ruling is nessecary here, the point should be clear by now; but thats not up to me.

This is realy a matter of Common Sense.

If the thing is in a large group, and they art totaly mindless- I would suggest NOT luring. As it is bad practice to get into. Some cases might be alright, but there are still other solutions then the mindless charge, and the ranged lure. Some of which can be very etertaining to pull off. Tactics are fun when lag doesnt spike them all around you. >.>

If your realy in a pickle, a quick word on a DM channel might let you Rp your way out of the swarm. Or do things beyond the mere dice rolls of combat. Depending of course on the type of situation your in, and of course the creature in question.

Generally speaking if you -have- to lure in order to survive a quest or reach a certain place, you may want to re-think any attempts to do so in future, at least until you're higher level or with a party you know works well together.

Really, just don't do it ever. But don't crap your pants if you're on the lowbie bug quest and kill a lone beetle.

Any chance of having the 'call for help' radius increased with the AI ?

I was told somewhere that this can be done.

jadelink